My wife and I (with our daughter) were driving back from Thanksgiving break on I-10 and saw two billboards announcing the end of the world on May 21st, 2011. Since the trip took us four hours more than we thought (because of road construction and lane closures during the busiest travel time of the year) we had time to look up the website for the prediction. It was a bunch of jibberish about how most Christians were underinformed and God pre-selected those that went to heaven. Predestination was bunk when I was learning World History and its still bunk now.
All this being said, it sparked a conversation about the role that religion should play in our lives and in society at large. Two things hit me. First, I remembered a time when our pastor told us that the Democrats and Republicans will not solve the ills of our world. I remember taking umbrage at the time, but the more I see the more I think he's right. He seemed to intimate that we could band together to solve society's problems. Obviously, organized religion would be a key springboard for that.
I've never been much for evangalization, so I focus inward. I haven't had the pleasure of living in any other generation of my own. The 1970s were labeled the "Me Generation" which makes the 1980s the "Me Me Me Me Generation." You have get rich quick schemes, yuppies, and it became chic to be conservative. In other words, we live in selfish times. All I'm saying is that I don't have the years to know whether this has always been true or whether this is a new phenomenom.
I suppose the fringe of religion doesn't help with these doomsday scenarios. If I only have until May, I better get cracking on getting that 3D television I've been hearing about. Reaction to a shortened timeline is personal indeed which bring us back to religion. I suppose for some it feels better to pray over Portland (as the doomsday group is currently doing) and every other city on the tour. Others may feel better getting their fill of the McRib Sandwich while it is still available.
What I do know is that our world is not a better place when the masses result to selfishness. Maybe religion can help us out there and maybe it can't. Maybe we have to wage this battle on our own. If May 21st is the last day, you will either find me in the pews or in Bush's seats behind home plate at Minute Maid Park. I haven't decided yet.
Pfft! We all know the world will end on Dec. 21st, 2012. Darn crazies need to get their time-lines correct...
you got a point there.
A "fractal" here, a "nucleotide" there, maybe a "quark" out of place. Kazaaam....you're Joaquin Phoenix.
Not even if when they put you back together you were only 25 years old? I don't know, it would still be a tough call. They might leave a few important parts out of the equation.
I agree. But I do find all that physic, space, time,quite fascinating. OTOH, if YOU think I am gonna step into one of those "transporters" and have my atoms scrambled and allegedly re-assembled somewhere else......you're out of your mind. :-)
Actually, Kip Thorne (Stephen Hawking's daddy) speculates that time travel is almost, but not quite a physical/mathematical impossibility. One this is certain, however, it is not possible to travel back in time prior to the invention of a time machine.
Hi Carguy,
good point about time 'travel'. conventional wisdom is pretty certain that going back in time is a definite no/no. Michio Kaku is the grey-headed dude. I like him even if that science fool on the Chron profaned his personality (actually had the nerve to quote a Kaku that I'm unfamiliar with.)
Hi Doug,
yes, those are some serious dilemmas...For an mathematically inclined interdimensional being time is VERY relative, it can move backward, forward, sidewards, all at once, or not at all. The hard part is for 3D beings to really understand what that means, if only from the perspective of mathematics and not physical theory. For us, though, the relevant thing is that we are compelled to move forward be it in a positive fashion or conversely negative. Ultimately, the belief is that we will all transcend our limitations and move on to the next realm AS A SPIRITUAL GROUP. That is our function, call it spiritual purpose, albeit, from the very limited perspective of our development at this point in 'time.' I guess it becomes a greater philosophic/scientific quandary when one considers that what our future holds is actually as yet undecided because it is mathematically possible that ANY possible future might occur to our personal being but it will not truly be you or I that is experiencing a SPECIFIC future. It would be 'another' you or I or even an uncountable infinity of other you's or I's....The bottom line would seem to be that if one believes in a spiritual existence then it is not possible that consensus reality is a true reality.
Man, I am loaded today!
Maybe he is one of "them", Carguy. "They" make all the rules, yet no one has ever met any of "them". Now "they" might put you and I both on a watchlist because we are onto "them".
Oh that brought back memories. The Choose Your Own Adventure books were great! I just looked on Amazon and I can still get them. They will make good stocking stuffers, I think.
By linear (not sure if I even have the right definition) I meant going in one direction. The idea that time started somewhere in the distance past, and is going somewhere in the distant future, and we find ourselves somewhere in between. I'm skeptical of this. Reality is a lot more freaky than that I think.
Carguy you said those guys (pretty sure the other one is Dr. Micheau Cachcoo, and how in heck do you spell his name)? say you can go forward in time, but not backward. How does that comport with what physics says about space travel? They say if you go to space you come back ever so slightly younger. This stuff is too baffling. Let's stick to politics!
Dickens, the McRib, the Catholic Church and time travel.......a little something for everybody today.
If you haven't checked out Kel's blog she's discussing breasts.
doug: I think time is linear. I was out on medical leave for a while and watched several shows on time travel. One featured Stephen Hawking. The other that Asian guy with the gray hair. They seem to contend that time IS linear except when affected by a "worm hole" or a "black hole". They (you know "they", they're the people that are authorities about everything) claim that because time is linear you can go forward in time buy NOT backwards. Although I'm not real sure about that "Back to the Future" thing, that is, IF you go forward in time can you go back to where you started? I don't think so. If yo did, it wouldn't be EXACTLY where you started anyway.
We might have to get Justin Kugler to clarify this. He works at NASA. OTOH, every time I aslk him about this stuff he "clams up." I think he knows more than he's letting on. :-)
Hi Alien
Illinois is ok, but brutal in the winter.
Yes, all the cool people come from the Chicago Suburbs...lol
I think Illinois is a pretty okay state. I've got a stepbrother that lives in Chicago and I worked with a guy that grew up in farm country north of Chicago. Is everybody from Chicago?
:O)
My two cents on the free will/determinism debate.
I think it's all determined in advance whether you believe in a God or not.
The evidence for this seems overwhelming to me. Neuroscience has even shown lately that thoughts generate in the subconcious before we even realize, then we carry out those instuctions.
I think this is consistent with what Christianity teaches as well. Is it in Revelations, that God says there's a "book of life" in which the name of every human that is going to go to heaven is already written?
I think part of our problem in dealing with this subject is that "time" (so our physicists say) is a construct we use to make sense of reality. (or something like that). We really don't have a good handle on what "time" is. It's certainly not linear.
Okay, enough Dickens for one day. I've never tried the McRib. I saw the Simpsons episode about the ribwich and it scared me away. Particularly when Krusty said the animal that made the ribwich was extinct. Immediately, people said, "the pig?" and he said, "no, think smaller, more legs."
Besides, I would go in and order the "ribwich" and probably put on some kind of watch list.
In terms of religion, I hear what many of you are saying. The Catholic Church is pissing me off lately and I'm on our pastoral council. It's hard, but I try to separate what people do in the name of God and what God says for us to do. It's hard, nasty business. I liken it to my running group. I've done about eight half marathons and one full. I haven't done one in awhile because I'm on my own. With a running group I had other people that made me accountable. I see religion much the same way. It isn't necessary and if the people that make you accountable make your skin crawl then you are probably better off on your own. For me, I find enough redeeming people to make it work.
You just scrambled my eggs, but I'll give it a go. I see life as a different kind of book. I used to read those books as a kid that gave me the opportunity to choose the direction of the plot. One was a game where I coached a team. If I choose one play I went to page 13 for the outcome. If I choose something else I went to page 15. I see life that same way. God gives us some material initially (family, genetics, geography)and then everything goes from there. He/She cannot know what might happen because everyone has free will and therefore there is a lottery of possibilities. Where he/she comes into play is that we have the gifts we got and a blueprint we can follow. The difficulty comes in deciphering the blueprint because we have many different people telling us many different things about what the blueprint says. I tend to go on prayer and just common sense (another gift).
Hi Alien,
I grew up in a small town in Illinois.
It isn't small any more. All the farm land around there now is full of stores.
It's a shame, because that soil gave out the best corn and tomato's I have ever eaten.
There were farms there that had windmills, their own septic system, she had a water well that we were connected to..The water was very rusty though. I probably have enough iron in me to last a life time. lol
The lady my parents rented from lived on the farm with her son, she was an amazing lady.
We called her Grandma, she made her own butter, killed her chickens, washed her hair with rain water and that rain water was clear, she did so many things. She and her son, were true farmers and wonderful people. Even though we weren't related they were very much my Grandma and Uncle.
Unfortunately I think in these times, it is best to be cautious when it comes in helping someone on the road side..Best to use your cell phone from a distance to get help to them. Most likely they have their own cell.
but you've been there before, of course, you know what's going to happen to poor hapless Pip. Is Pip real, does he think and manifest those thoughts, can he hand you a banana? Or is he just a character brought to life only in a Dickensian imaginary way. Of course, it could be compellingly argued that we are only imaginary beings but that's a horse of another color. But what if Dickens chose to write another book about our Pip...would you then know Pip's fate, would Dickens then know Pip's fate before actually imagined. Would that then mean that unfortunate Pip's fate was predestined or would it merely mean that Pip's destiny was foreseen and actuated without any input at all from poor sad Pip?
Well, no. I know what's going to happen to Pip, but Mr. Dickens is actually to blame. Pip is faultless.
I might try another one...the last one wasn't as good as I remember them... :O)
Hey Carguy,
I was about to write that knowing what is going to happen might cause me some serious existential angst but maybe God doesn't have an angst problem?
Gee.......you guys are getting into this WAAAY too deep. Follow my recomendations, go get a McRib sandwich. You'll feel better.
P.S. I don't think we should let Bush/Cheney off the hook just yet. OTOH, Bush WAS incompetent, but Cheney was self-serving and malicious.
that's an interesting question, but how about this...If I know something is going to happen does that mean I caused it to happen?
OK Scott, riddle me this:
Predestination and free will cannot exist simultaneously, correct?
Since its Dickens on the Strand time, I’ll use Pip from “great Expectations” to illustrate my point. Every time I’ve read that book (3 times so far), Pip has made the same decisions and the ending of the story is the same. I would venture to say that Pip has no choice but to follow the destiny that is dictated to us by Mr. Dickens.
If it is the case that God, as I was raised to believe, is both omnipotent and omniscient, then he has already read my book and yours. I would even venture to say he wrote them, if my previous statement is true.
So which is it, is God’s power limited or are we just characters in a book and doomed to follow a predestined path? If the latter is true, then let me just say: I guess it wasn’t W’s fault after all.
I guess I'm in a loquacious, but reflective mood this morning so I wanted to follow up with my previous thought.
Many in our culture are no longer willing to accept help, they want to 'take' help, by force if necessary. The underlying question is why have we arrived at such a depraved state of affairs. Well, in my opinion we as a society systematically denigrate the underclasses, spearheaded by the Repubtilians we destroy God given spirit and forge a cynical, selfish self, leaving an empty container in its place which marginally qualifies as a human being. Charlie Manson in his cultic wisdom said it best, "You made me!"
Hi Windorsolar,
Just curious about where you grew up...it sounds pretty cool.
My first instinct is to help someone that is have road trouble...but, I just don't because it's too dangerous. I always feel bad but that's just the way it is. Incidentally, I'm usually driving by myself but if I had some muscle riding shotgun I might take a chance but if that was the case the person needing help would probably be afraid to accept. It's a crazy world!
'tis true, 'tis true...
Very good Article/Views you wrote.
I am older and grew up in different times.
My parents rented a house located on a very small farm, while I was growing up.
It was a time were you left your doors unlocked, helped someone who needed help, was happy to give anyone free eggs, fresh fruit, and vegetables from the garden, and wasn't scared to pick up a stranger who needed a ride.
The school was a one room with a pot belly stove and we wore our coats the whole day.
Our saddle shoes would leave puddles of white shoe polish, as the snow melted off of us.
I know it sounds like little house on the prairie, but that is how it was.
When I was young we had a coal furnace no hot running water, no cloths washer or dryer, no air conditioning, no dish washer, our phone was a party line, and for a short time no TV.
We had record players and the radio, we played outside and knew to come home right before it started to get dark.
A home cooked dinner would be on the table for all of us to eat together, because Mom didn't work out side the home.
After dinner we would go outside again and play in the dark catching fireflies. Playing Hide and seek was a lot more fun at night.
Business's were run by family's not corporate. When you were lucky to go to a restaurant, they served home cooking with real mashed potato's.
With all the things we have now, it was still a better place back then.
Times are changing, I don't see it getting better. Greed, corruption, people getting high, gangs, crime is growing by leaps.
God will get tired of this. However, no one knows the day or hour.
There are people who believe in God some who don't. The people who don't, most of them when they read the ten commandments know it is common sense and there are laws in there that should be obeyed.
Therefore, I think God's Laws/religion does play a big part in most of our lives in some way or other.
Or maybe I am just hoping that it does.
BTW if I do have until May .. I want to get off this diet and eat pizza..lol
Charlie Sheen.....not so much. OTOH, I don;t think anybody is surprised about his backslide.
RIP Leslie Nielsen. You made us laugh. Thanks!!!
Well I don't know about that........I'm pretty sure the BIG GUY is VERRRY dissappointed in us. BUt, I'm not sure he's ready to fold up his tent and move opn to another solar system. What have we had really, 6-8,000 years. I think HE gave the dinosaurs longer than that, right????
We ARE better than we were, say 50 years ago. Granted we seem to have hit a bump in the road. But, once Rush, Speaker-elect Orange Sluchy Pumpkinhead and McConnel pass on, I thinkwe can get back on track.
Michael Vick seems to have shaped up nicely.
The alien propaganda is getting quite noticeable these days, eh?
Several good points you've made. It DID become chic to be conservative which is when I realized the end was near. I've tried the McRib...again, and it still sucks! And any damn fool knows that the world will not end until December 21, 2012!
Mumbo jumbo guilt trips aren't going to save us. And if the living can't save us, it will be of no use to consult the dead.
We must take responsibility for our own survival - or else! There's already a hit out on all of us...
Religion is truly the opiate of the people. Organized religion is one of the most divisive and polarizing forces in the world. Just look at where we are today because of it.
If anyone hasn't tried a McRib sandwich, now would be the time. They're quite tasty!
Religion does have its place. Many people NEED religion to give their life purpose, for its support, or to explain things to them that are, otherwise, inexplicable. PLus, if we didn't have religion, we'd have a HUGE surplus of used car salesman and those guys who sell those magnetic bracelets that cure absolutely everything. Don;t get me wrong. There ARE people who devote their life to God, help people, and don't make several million dollars doing it. Those rabbis, priests, and preachers are good people and do good work.