Paul Hipp has created a youTube sensation singing the truth about health care...the United States has the highest cost per capita and ranks 37th among the developed nations in health care. Presented to you without further comment:
We're Number 37, and We Want to Keep It That Way
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Oops read that wrong. That would be Singapore.
Infant mortality rates are a TRUE indicator of health care systems.
Uzbekistan is twice as good as the U.S.
The Heritage Foundation as an unbiased source?! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You will have to excuse elowe. Most CONservatives don't base things in facts. They base them in pure opinion and speculation. Even with tens of thousands dying every year from having no health insurance, they still think we are best in the world.
U.S. health care is a scam. Purely designed to kill off people and fleece them of all their money.
FACT: Cuba has a better infant mortality rate than the U.S. But, hey we are better than the Faroe Islands. We beat them by a whole .1
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html
Conservatives don't mind lying and killing people, simply because they have no conscience.
Sorry, elowe, your bullshit doesn't fly here like it does on the chron. You claimed that the Commonwealth Foundation was a "left wing think tank" that I proved wrong with citation. You claimed it was controlled by George Soros, which I proved wrong with citation. I won't play your fucking game. You make an assertion, you prove it. So, YOU provide a solid, reliable source of your claims. Put up or shut up.
You like to claim that all sources with which you disagree are "far left" even though they're not, then you cite horseshit like Heritage, claiming it's reliable. Give us one reference for Commonwealth being "far left". The Harkness family has contributed the lion's share of funding for the foundation, building hospitals and funding academic research. You are correct that it's not like the Heritage foundation where they use all their money to fund "research" that supports political positions of the people who pay them. Commonwealth is almost all health care research and funding. Heritage is a one-stop shop. After being paid, they supported the Iraq war with lies, the tax cuts with lies, and every other Bush initiative with lies. The fact that it is cited by Fox Noise regularly disqualifies it as a reliable, factual source.
I understand perfectly the issue of sources...you support political bullshit from paid shills, I cite academic research from non-partisan sources. On the health care system you, and 99.9% of other conservatives, continue to push the notion that everything is OK because we have the "best health care in the world". We do, as long as you are a cash payer, like the Canadian you cite. If you have no money, you have no health care in the US.
You actually believe that it's the free market that funds "...the best market for developing new medical technology, new young talent, and new medical pharmaceuticals"? Wrong again. The US government has historically funded 1/3 to over half of the R&D done in the US. They also allow companies to protect private research dollars by providing monopolies for new drugs and technologies.
Your citation of the AAMC website is odd since it calls for more federal dollars to get more medical students into school. The free market doesn't work very well there, I guess.
As to your bullshit about people not going to other countries for care, I refer you to the piece I did last month about people GOING TO INDIA who can't afford to pay the cost here. http://dailyhurricane.com/2010/01/how-bad-is-health-care-in-the-us-ask-americans-going-to-india.html
You can deny the poor state of the American health care system. That's because you have health insurance, obviously. Pray to God you or any of your family don't get sick, because you will lose your health care, too. Almost 70% of bankruptcies are medical related. Of those, 80% had insurance when they got sick. When they got cancelled or hit their limit, they lost everything. You shouldn't go bankrupt for just getting sick.
Your problem, as a conservative, is not that you LOVE America. It's that you HATE Americans.
Sure they are, elowe.
You look in the mirror lately?
"Here's your sign!"
You know, as many things Nixon did that were "bad". That "White House Enemies List" was not a bad idea. CREEP, despite all it's wickedness, could be a valuable tool...politically speaking, in the right hands. (And I think we ALL agree whose hands those might be)
I'm not saying make things up like the infamous "Canuk Letter" they used against Muskie. But, I'd like to see if John Boener is "clean". Several other republicans come to mind too. Whose internet "brousing" history isn't something that might be embarassing. Just remember to REMOVE the duct tape from the door latch.
you didn't shoot anything down...bob...just google soros and commonwealth fund...egad, is every director or fellow of the CW a former or current Soros director? Yeah, you dispelled that lie...good job. Do you even try anymore? Nobody bothers to challenge you in the echo chamber and you get a kind of lazy, if not thin skinned.
The CW donor page is pretty short, what does not listing all your donors prove? You don't want that agenda to show through.
What does 80yr old Standard Oil family money equate to any legitimacy? Seriously? Does 60 yr old Oxy money make Al Gore any more credible?
The notation at the bottom of the SD opinion piece: "This research was supported by The Commonwealth Fund and published in the January/February issue of Health Affairs. The Commonwealth Fund is an independent foundation working toward health policy reform and a high performance health system."
You completely missed the point about sources. For every left wing idealogue link you can throw out, most with no real basis but for twisting or manipulating "facts," I can diffuse with an equally conservative link. You may not like their conclusion, but at least mine will be based in reality and do not hide their intention.
You insult the American public and then claim I insult you? How, by stating a Candian Provincial Govenor gets his heart procedure performed here, where apparently 37th is better than 4th or 5th?
Now, in my second post I claim you are a idealogue zealout, which you are, I mean, read your responses. If that is an insult, you earn it.
I don't wish to deny anything to anybody. On the contrary, I wish everybody had the opportunities I have enjoyed, even more. But I would never wish to gain at the expense of others, even you, just because they have more than I do. I don't encite class envy, and I don't think government needs to be in the middle of every aspect of hummanity.
The US provides the best market for developing new medical technology, new young talent, and new medical pharmaceuticals. Gov't intervention has already resulted in most doctors not accepting new medicair/medicaid patients, and less new US medical students are enrolling in pre-med studies. By 2012 the majority of 1st and 2nd year medical students in US schools are now destined for practice in other countries. More gov't intervention does not make the landscape look very promising.
http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/pressrel/2006/060619.htm
You can throw up some BS about the US being 37th in the world just to try to support your silly agenda. But when it comes down to life or death, I am pretty sure nobody who bothers to read this nonsense would ever pack up and run to any other country for their heart surgery or a brain aneurysm. I wouldn't even feel good about an appendectomy anywhere but here.
Your version of "Medical Reform" would do nothing to reduce costs or provide better care for any significant populus. However, law schools will have never been so full.
Carguy,
I was really kind of concerned that the Republican party might start acting sane. It's a lot more fun for me to hate them and to see them get a boot in the arse.
For credibility I'd remove the Cato institute, at least. I'll have to check Heritage but that sounds an awful lot like an insurance company...
Elowe,
You must admit it's silly to rebut WHO sources with CATO and Heritage and call someone ELSE a wingnut. That's like me rebutting Hannity with Ed Schultz. They're both biased like crazy.
elowe: Bob pretty much said it all in regards to your sorry self. About all I can add is "Why don't you crawl back under your rock." About all you add is a miasma of BS.
For those too busy, here's an update on today's healthcare summitt:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HEALTH_SUMMIT_SCENE?SITE=NVREN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Still appears there's NO bill the republicans will vote for. Are they actually against this on principle? Or are they still on their defeat ANY democratic bill game plan? Hard to call without slow-motion replay.
One thing seems certain. IF we move up from 37, it won't be very far. Maybe we'll pass Lesotho and Barbuda. From what I could see Obama DID bring his "big stick" with him. But he didn't hit anybody with it, yet. I hope the operative word here is "yet".
elowe, You're denying you gave an opinion in your comment, including the insult to me? Everyone knows what your opinion is. Let's see...
George Soros is the bogey man for all conservatives, and everyone is, using O'Reillyisms, "far left" if they disagree with him and you. For those not familiar, the Commonwealth Fund was started in 1918 by Anna Harkness, the wife of a STANDARD OIL COMPANY founder. Mrs. Harkness' said that the foundation would "do something for the welfare of mankind." Boy is that far left. The foundation is primarily funded by the Harkness family, the Picker family (founder of Picker X-Ray Company), and other prominent families. It's not a "think tank". It funds research and contributed to building major hospitals. Don't believe me, read for yourself. http://www.commonwealthfund.org/About-Us/Donor-Page.aspx So you're busted on that lie.
Foundation for Economic Education? Libertarian and established to promote "free market principles"? You rail against a true non-partisan non-profit that funds academic research with opinion from one who espouses "free markets"? One doesn't need to read the opinion piece to know what the answer is. Same for Heritage, founded by Paul Weyrich, who also coined the term "moral majority" and promoted denying the vote to poor people. Now there's an unbiased source. CATO? Libertarian, anti-government.
If you had actually read the Science Daily article you would know it was actual a summary of a study done by researchers from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.
I'm sure you think those "think tanks" (translation: shills who are given the answer, then paid to distort numbers to support them) since they agree with you.
Jesus, elowe, it's just too easy to shoot you down. I guess if those who want to help mankind are "far left", I guess those who are far right just maybe want to "fuck the world". I guess that fits, eh?
Come back better prepared, or just run away with you tail tucked between your legs.
My opinion was not in my first post. The opinion was that of Philip Musgrove, the editor-in-chief of the WHO report. His opinion is it the WHO report is meaningless...his words. Your opinion is that is the WHO report is credible. Which of you two are more qualified to offer their opinion on that report?
Come on bob, the Commonwealth Fund? The far left wing think tank funded by George Soros? Their sole purpose is to push for Single Source payer. Yeah, good source. No bias there.
http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/ranking-the-us-health-care-system/
I think I will stick with the Cato institute, The Heritage Foundation, or even US News and World Reports.
Why do you post a ScienceDaily report that is simply a cut and paste from the CW? All you have are echo chamber links with no outside analysis? You can do better, I hope.
It's OK your are an idealogue zealot, just don't be so pissy when someone calls out your sources as BS.
I was bored today...I am glad to find you are still here for some entertainment.
Let's see, elowe, where to start, where to start...first, I love the way you use an OPINION piece to back up YOU OPINION. Good move. Second, don't like the WHO report? How about Commonwealth with 2002, 2004, and 2006 data? Or Kaiser with 2007 and 2008 data? Commonwealth has US ranked last in cost, access, quality, efficiency, equity, AND health lives among Australia, Canada, Germany, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States. http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/Publications/Fund-Reports/2007/May/Mirror--Mirror-on-the-Wall--An-International-Update-on-the-Comparative-Performance-of-American-Healt.aspx
Another study sponsored by Commonwealth in 2008 ranks the US LAST among 19 countries in preventive mortality. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080108082944.htm
I could go on and on, but you get the point. But, hey, elowe, you're right. Nothing to see here. Move along and stick your head back in the sand. Maybe you should go check the GOP website for the next talking point.
And amazingly proud of it for some reason.
"Americans are stupid. And ignorant."
Really?
Well, Canadian Provincial Premiers seem to like American health care. Where did Canada rank in this 2000 WHO report?
"Philip Musgrove, the editor-in-chief of the WHO report that accompanied the rankings, calls the figures that resulted from this step "so many made-up numbers," and the result a "nonsense ranking." Dr. Musgrove, an economist who is now deputy editor of the journal Health Affairs, says he was hired to edit the report's text but didn't fully understand the methodology until after the report was released. After he left the WHO, he wrote an article in 2003 for the medical journal Lancet criticizing the rankings as "meaningless."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125608054324397621.html
"But even such analyses, more limited in scope than the WHO's effort, face similar problems: How to differentiate between the quality of the medical system and other factors, such as diet, exercise and violent-crime rates."
Maybe its just you, bob.
I'm sending $20 to this guy -- it is worth $20 to me to see SOMEONE speak for me! - even though he was elected by people in another state....
Spot on, Kelly!
Those of us that have been - or are currently - there know exactly what you are saying.
Sad that so many don't realize how difficult it can be to find someone to treat your condition without insurance, especially when it is a "non emergency"!
I shed a tear, no joke.
I wonder if the Republicans are going to bring the Blair House Witch with them tomorrow...
Keith just blew me away...
Its a sad state of affairs when the French are ahead of any one in anything Government wise. Hell, they've been screwed up since the vichy government.
The worst myth that comes from the talking heads is that everyone can get emergency care.
Let me tell you something - cancer and diabetes and fibromyalgia and rheumatoid arthritis are NOT emergencies. If you need constant insulin, syringes, needles, blood testing supplies, and you don't have insurance? You are -screwed-. You'll have your emergency soon enough.
And if you get treated at the ER - they don't dispense prescriptions - you still have to find a pharmacy and buy those!
Pregnant and get laid off, but don't qualify for medicaid? Don't try to get prenatal care, just show up when the water breaks and hope your baby isn't in danger due to a condition that could have been fixed in utero.
A Canadian friend of mine remarked about Sean Hannity's constant "best healthcare system in the world BS" by saying "I'm sorry, I can't hear him over my health care".
Yes, France. At less that HALF the cost per capita. Americans are stupid. And ignorant.
When you only count "developed nations" that's gonna schew the results.
We are in first place at the Olympics though. Just hope none of those athletes get hurt.
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France #1......FRANCE?????? Gee whiz.