First I want to thank everybody for your comments on yesterday's post. Sorry I couldn't jump in but sometimes work gets in the way. The debate between "kill the bill" and "pass it and fix it later" is a good one with valid points to be made on both sides. That's why I like the forum we have here at the Hurricane so much. We can disagree with each other and have a substantive discussion on an actual issue without all the name-calling and nonsense getting in the way.
Many are frustrated with the goings-on in Washington, and let me say I share your frustration. But also let me encourage you that this is not the time to pack it in and resign ourselves to a Republican Congress in '10 and President Palin (shudder) in '12. Now is when we should fight even harder for what we believe in, and hold the feet of those we elected to the fire and let them know what we think and what we expect.
Because if we don't, if we decide to just sit it out and teach them a lesson, we'll end up with more DeMints, more Grassleys, more Bachmanns, and more Boehners in D.C. than we have now, and we have too many of them there already.
We don't need any more like Tom Coburn who wrote an editorial for The Wall Street Journal, entitled This Health Bill Is Scary, which opened with this:
And we surely don't need anybody elected by the Teabaggers, like these people who showed up at the office of Kentucky Senator Jim Bunning.
Back to debate over the Senate bill for a minute, I read an interesting post at Down With Tyranny on the reasons why the goal is just to pass something and move it on to a conference committee. I'm not in agreement with all of it, but it is something to consider. Maybe there is a method to the madness.
Many are frustrated with the goings-on in Washington, and let me say I share your frustration. But also let me encourage you that this is not the time to pack it in and resign ourselves to a Republican Congress in '10 and President Palin (shudder) in '12. Now is when we should fight even harder for what we believe in, and hold the feet of those we elected to the fire and let them know what we think and what we expect.
Because if we don't, if we decide to just sit it out and teach them a lesson, we'll end up with more DeMints, more Grassleys, more Bachmanns, and more Boehners in D.C. than we have now, and we have too many of them there already.
We don't need any more like Tom Coburn who wrote an editorial for The Wall Street Journal, entitled This Health Bill Is Scary, which opened with this:
"I recently suggested that seniors will die sooner if Congress actually implements the Medicare cuts in the health-care bill put forward by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. My colleagues who defend the bill--none of whom have practiced medicine--predictably dismissed my concern as a scare tactic. They are wrong. Every American, not just seniors, should know that the rationing provisions in the Reid bill will not only reduce their quality of life, but their life spans as well."
And we surely don't need anybody elected by the Teabaggers, like these people who showed up at the office of Kentucky Senator Jim Bunning.
Back to debate over the Senate bill for a minute, I read an interesting post at Down With Tyranny on the reasons why the goal is just to pass something and move it on to a conference committee. I'm not in agreement with all of it, but it is something to consider. Maybe there is a method to the madness.
I have an idea what Ben Nelson and Joe Liberman need to do and it involves various body parts of persons such as Dick Cheney....and I've already been in trouble for language so I'm just going to let it go at that......
des thanks for the call for calm. there is not a doubt in my mind that everyone here at the hurricane is extremely disappointed in the turn of events, and every person deals with disappointment in their own way. some get angry, some withdraw, some become cynical and jaded and some get fired up and ready to go, but in so many different directions they go nowhere. i'm of an irish mind today, feeling like the party of no needs to meet the party of yes, in an all out bar room brawl. sigh, and i used to be such a peace person:)
*snort*
I'd say what Ben Nelson needs to do, but any enunciation of it would be too delicate and retiring for the task at hand.
Take a look at Nelson’s list of demands.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/12/18/816105/-Ben-Nelson:-Bill-covers-too-many-uninsured-people,-must-be-scaled-back
Just kidding. Everybody loves carguy.
There's nothing complicated about the method: "get a ******* bill passed, come hell or high water, or else see the rest of the term go down the tube." If it's much more complex than that, I'll eat my shirt.
What does "everybody else" say about carguy?? _I_ like carguy!
"What I have been wondering about the "mandate" is simply --- can it legally be done -- or you get fined, and possibly jailed."
Yes, it can legally be done, though there's been a lot of bloviating about that issue from the right (and responses from the commentariat). Yes, you'd be fined if you can't provide evidence of insurance on your annual 1040. What the fine would be, we don't know. It would start very low and go up to $750 per year (a comparative pittance) in the Senate bill as it last was, and go on a sliding scale up to 2.5% of income annually in the House bill as passed.
Patience is definitely not my claim to fame, either, and it has kicked me in the patootie on several occasions. That is why, when I observe someone like President Obama, I am envious and impressed. I have this little fantasy in my head that has this country back on track by 2012 as a result of his deliberate and calculated decisions, which will enable him to blow Republican Candidate X out of the water. Sort of like Colt McCoy is going to do to Ingram and Co. ;) . . .
Thanks, you're alright with me, too. I don't care what everybody else says about you.
You’re right. I know I get caught up in the day to day details and lose sight of the long term. Patience was never my strong suit and the older I get the more that’s the case. I want it all and I want it now.
The president’s a lot smarter than I am (not that it takes a lot to clear that hurdle.) Maybe this is all part of the strategery.
I have never heard that quote. It is SOOOOOOOOO true. I mean, REALLY!
Ok guys and girls --
This just in....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/18/white-house-will-try-to-p_n_397022.html
Keep your fingers crossed.
Well, SST -- you're probably right.
What I have been wondering about the "mandate" is simply --- can it legally be done -- or you get fined, and possibly jailed.
I understand -- if we drive a car -- we are "mandated" to have insurance.
However, none of us is forced to drive.
We have a "public option." It's called "mass transit."
So, because we have a "body" we have to insure it??
I wonder.
We'll see....
To be continued.....
I am glad you posted this today. I am like most of our colleagues here at TDH. Really dissappointed. But, I have not given up on Obama yet. Emanuel and Axelrod maybe. That lame-ass senator majority leader for sure. And, don't we HAVE a senate "whip"? Where the hell has this guy been. I'm not for "waterboarding" prisoners of war, but I have no qualms about using it on elected officials. Just sayin'.
But, back to the subject. I guess something is better than nothing. There is improvement over the status quo but no fix for THE PROBLEM.
I fear what we have here is not gonna help defeat or contain the insurance companies' rape of the public.
But I don't know what else to do.
Thanks Des for the job you do. You get a big "4 Spuds" from "the Tater".
"Maybe there is a method to the madness."
I am still clinging to that sentiment, Desperado. I haven't given up on President Obama yet - partly because I am stubborn, and partially because I have always admired his methodical approach to dilemmas. Rightly or wrongly, I have given him credit for being able to see the big picture. You know the old cliche - lose the battle but win the war. From now, I am ignoring that little nagging doubt that crops up periodically . . .
You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.
Winston Churchill
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We will get health care right. It just seems it's our destiny to do it the hard way.
"I only have one suggestion on something that should be thrown out of this bill -- and that is clearly: No public option - no mandates."
No chance. If we're going to get guaranteed issue, guaranteed renewability, no pre-existing condition exclusions, and modified community rating, then we're going to get an individual mandate, too. Otherwise, the whole bill will quickly and brutally go down in flames.
Remember that it takes 60 votes to break a filibuster. Don't get your hopes up about what might emerge from conference, presuming this thing ultimately passes the Senate.
I agree with both of you. Des, on your commentary and your comment. And, Carol, on your comment. I also read the link and have the same hope as you and the author.
If the hope is to "improve" on all this, in the future, through the legislative process, it's going to take a lot more progressives in both houses of Congress -- to accomplish that.
I only have one suggestion on something that should be thrown out of this bill -- and that is clearly: No public option - no mandates.
The American people need affordable, quality health care -- they don't need insurance.
The President of the AFL-CIO also thinks this bill can be improved in conference. According to an interview I read yesterday on HuffingtonPost.com.
He did state that he thought the bill crafted in the Senate, in its present form, was DOA in the House.
We'll see.
Like yesterday, Des. Great commentary.
The possibility of those 2 words ever becoming a reality should be enough to make any sane person want to go vote---President Palin. How about Speaker Boehner and Majority Leader Lieberman? Imagine that combination in power.
Good grief, Des! Did you have to mention Sarah Palin as President before I finished my first cup of coffee!
I absolutely agree that now IS the time to hold our elected members of Congress accountable for their actions and remind them - again and again -that they work for US, not for the corporations that pad their pockets. I also believe that we must do the same with President Obama. We must, on a daily basis, remind him WHY we elected him and what we expect him to accomplish.
I read your link to "Down With Tyranny" and I can only hope that his assessment of the conference committee is a accurate one because something has to be done to fix this mess - and soon.