The torture-defending spokespersons for the Republican Party were on full display yesterday on the Sunday news shows. First there was Papa Dick Cheney stopping by Fox News Sunday for a softball game with Chris Wallace, what Andrew Sullivan aptly named, A Teenage Girl Interviewing the Jonas Brothers. Then we had daughter Liz on This Week making some incredible claims (even for Liz, and that's saying something) about the Bush Justice Department. Finally, John McCain on Face the Nation with some amazingly self-contradictory statements.
Former Vice-President Cheney began the interview by saying it was a "terrible decision" by Attorney General Holder to open an investigation into detainee abuse included in the Inspector General's report released last week, adding that it "offends the hell out of me." Then came this:
You know what offends the hell out of me, Mr. Cheney? That a former vice-president of the United States of America can go on national television and not only confess to a war crime, waterboarding, but condone behavior that was outside even the broad interpretation of what the Bush administration considered "legal" at the time.
Mr. Cheney is also apparently not familiar with the War Crimes Act. The power drill and the gun don't have to be actually used, just the "threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering" is illegal. And about torture giving us the "intelligence we needed to go find Al-Qaeda," a question for the former VP. Where's Osama bin Laden?
On to daughter Liz on This Week. She defended the allegations in the IG report by saying they had already been investigated. When Sam Donaldson pointed out that the investigation was done by the Bush Justice Department, Liz responded with the absurd claim that the Bush DOJ was "less political than Eric Holder, who is a political appointee." So Holder is a "political appointee" but Alberto Gonzales, John Yoo, and Jay Bybee were what, elected? Clearly the entire Cheney family lives in the backwards, bizzaro world.
Finally Senator McCain on Face the Nation. Although he admits that the interrogations were "in violation of the Geneva Convention and the Convention Against Torture," that they "harmed us and harmed our image in the world," and "helped Al-Qaeda recruit," we should ignore all that and "go forward, not back." From Crooks and Liars:
All in all, a sad day for those of us who still believe the Constitution and the rule of law trumps whatever it takes to "keep us safe."
Former Vice-President Cheney began the interview by saying it was a "terrible decision" by Attorney General Holder to open an investigation into detainee abuse included in the Inspector General's report released last week, adding that it "offends the hell out of me." Then came this:
You know what offends the hell out of me, Mr. Cheney? That a former vice-president of the United States of America can go on national television and not only confess to a war crime, waterboarding, but condone behavior that was outside even the broad interpretation of what the Bush administration considered "legal" at the time.
Mr. Cheney is also apparently not familiar with the War Crimes Act. The power drill and the gun don't have to be actually used, just the "threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering" is illegal. And about torture giving us the "intelligence we needed to go find Al-Qaeda," a question for the former VP. Where's Osama bin Laden?
On to daughter Liz on This Week. She defended the allegations in the IG report by saying they had already been investigated. When Sam Donaldson pointed out that the investigation was done by the Bush Justice Department, Liz responded with the absurd claim that the Bush DOJ was "less political than Eric Holder, who is a political appointee." So Holder is a "political appointee" but Alberto Gonzales, John Yoo, and Jay Bybee were what, elected? Clearly the entire Cheney family lives in the backwards, bizzaro world.
Finally Senator McCain on Face the Nation. Although he admits that the interrogations were "in violation of the Geneva Convention and the Convention Against Torture," that they "harmed us and harmed our image in the world," and "helped Al-Qaeda recruit," we should ignore all that and "go forward, not back." From Crooks and Liars:
All in all, a sad day for those of us who still believe the Constitution and the rule of law trumps whatever it takes to "keep us safe."
You couldn't be more right.
The question......are we gonna call a "foot fault" on ourselves???????
People were kidnapped out of their homes, and tortured to death... Most of the tortured and murdered were based on lies from unreliable informants. Where in the hell is the "high road" in that?
These monsters made us unsafe not safe. The CIA told Bush Co. that Iraq and Al Qaeda were enemies. Bush/Cheney told them to keep torturing till they got what they wanted to hear. The excuse to invade Iraq was a lie, a Rovian concoction designed to dupe Americans into thinking exactly what Bush Co. wanted.
-If anyone cared to read the bill O.K.ing the Iraq invasion you would know that if the reason for invasion was found to be untrue the war would be deemed illegal.-
Bush/Cheney were the biggest recruiting tool a terrorist organization could ever wish for. This sick bastards stole an election and murdered and wounded 2 million people for oil. Where is everyone's outrage? Have we become so desensitized that these atrocities go unanswered as long as we have a perceived safety and $2 a gallon gas?
For McCain to defend this is just another example of how Republicans are willing to throw themselves on the sword for their fascist masters. If anyone in the GOP should be outraged and disgusted by Bush Co.'s actions it should be McCain.
PLUS, this conciliatory tone coming from the pansies in Washington is bullshit. Just another tool used by the real power in this country to evoke sympathy for a bunch of murdering torturers.
Of course these toy soldiers want everyone to just forget this ever happened... How in the hell can they do it again if we all remember?
I'm not sure there IS a "high road". Either we condemn torture and violations of international law or we condone it if and when it serves OUR purposes.
Is anybody gonna go to jail. Probably not, even IF there is an investigation and even IF there are findings. Let's face it, Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Bush are the ones who ultimately approved this. They ain't goin' anywhere no matter what. Will somebody lower on the ladder take the fall. Only time will tell.
Maybe we could turn the evidence over to an international tribunal. Obama is really in a no win. There is absolutely no precedent for going after the previous administration. Who knows, maybe if the timing of Watergate had happened differently (with Nixon serving out his term) we might have seen something, but I tend to doubt it. On the other hand, the international community is looking at us and currently think we're a bunch of scumbags. You'd love to do something to change that image. You have a hard time telling them, "sorry, it will be a political quagmire if we do that."
Back when Clinton was running for president, it dawned upon me that this country was divided, roughly 50%, give or take. I thought about that for a while...a country divided is in trouble. All this Bush/Cheney crap, breaking laws, torturing people, it's a mess. The way I see this, I am not entirely convinced Holder should go forward. I'm not entirely sure he should. My thinking right now is, no, he shouldn't. You talk about a divided country now, it's gonna get worse if criminal charges are brought. Do we have to have our pound of flesh? Is there no way we can take a high road on this?
Scott, I believe that he is a sociopath, too. So that's 2 of us who have been trained to point that out.
Yeah, right....."Other than that incident, how'd you like play Mrs LIncoln?"
But other than that, he's a helluva nice guy.
Scott. Actually....if you'll pick ONE, I'll go along. :-)
That Dick Cheney is the most despicable, belly crawlin', lowlife I have EVER witnessed in the history of US politics.
I remember my post earlier about people believing that what they do is best for the country. I firmly believe Cheney believes that his course of action was best for the country. In the terms of sociopathic behavior, I see someone that doesn't consider the law, doesn't consider how his actions will hurt those around him, and is willing to do anything to avoid personal responsibility. If I look in the DSM-IV that is the blueprint for anti-social personality disorder. Of course, I can't guarantee a diagnosis even if he were my patient I still believe his actions are correlated with that disorder. As for the other part, I took things a little too far. I wish he would die politically and not personally.
I have no love lost for Dick Cheney, but that's a bit much, Scott. :)
The problem for the Republicans is that Cheney is a sociopath. He doesn't care for others and that includes his own party. Every time he goes out there and says these things it reminds the American people of why they chose Democrat in the last election. Without him, so people would be wavering, they would see a still struggling economy, a lot of money spent and would forget why we are in the mess in the first place. Now, he reminds them everyday. People watch him and go, "oh yeah, it's was your dumb ass that got us into this." These statements also make Bush look better in comparison. Cheney will go down in history as the American version of Rasputin. Shoot him in the face, hang him from the tree, poison him, and drown him and he still won't die.
I don't think that Sen. McCain reversed himself. I think what he said was in total contradiction with Cheney's assessment as to torture keeping us safer and getting good intelligence, and his statement that Al-Qaeda TOLD him that it helped them recruit is incriminating. And he agrees it greatly harmed our image. I'm glad he said all that.
He may not agree with us that these people need to be punished. But I'm going to give him a pass because he agrees in every respect with me AND our President regarding the use of torture.
As for Cheney, he is stuck in some other world of spying and espionage. I look at him and see pure evil. I think he is a danger to our nation, and I want him punished. How can he blatantly sit there and say that he agreed with surpassing the DOJ's lax definitions of allowed EITs? How can he get away with complete disregard for the rule of law and our commitment to the Geneva Convention? He has no heart and no soul. He needs to go to prison for war crimes.
I think Cheyney is also stating that the current administration should not be questioning the previous administration and their "methods" for keeping the country safe for the last eight years. Like McCain, we should be ignoring "all that" and move forward. I would suggest Cheyney retire back to his hobbit hole and let the truth speak for itself. All this spin, is the same pattern we have seen before. Drag out the daughter and ex-Vietnam veteran senator and work the talk shows. So worn out and pitiful. I can see through it.
I worry about the lack of brains in Congress.
I worry about the intestinal fortitude of the American people to step up and do what's right.
We should go forward, and do the right thing, by making sure this will never happen again and showing the US perpetrators of these crimes that there are consequences for breaking the law. Otherwise, we are the terrorists.
Yup, that probably makes me a bleeding heart liberal. But I'd rather be that than a freaking hypocrite and liar.
You've got to wonder if those that are still on board with the Republican party line are cringing a little bit when they watch Cheney say, once again, regardless of the seriousness of the allegation, that we were kept safe. That the tactics were necessary to keep us safe. That if we didn't let our interrogators do everything other than rape and murder, we'd have had another attack. He's not even changing his words - that's his story and he's sticking to it. Word for freakin' word.