How Do You Reason With Unreasonable People? You Can’t

I would like to make an appeal to President Obama and the Democrats in Congress, drop this attempt at bi-partisanship and get on with the business of passing health care reform.

I understand the president’s desire to include Republican ideas (as if they had any) and input into the proposed legislation, but as the town hall meetings across the country go on and the emotions intensify, one thing is becoming increasingly clear, you can’t have a serious, rational debate over a complex issue like reforming the broken health care system with people who are clearly disconnected from reality.

Question: How do you reason with people like Sen. Charles Grassley, the ranking Republican on one of the committees writing the legislation, when he makes ridiculous statements like telling people in Iowa they have “every right to fear” because “we should not have a government program that determines if you’re going to pull the plug on grandma?”

Answer: You can’t.

Question: How do you reason with people like Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA) who says this about health care reform?:

“This is a stinking, rotten fish, and they don’t want you to smell it, and they want to shove it down your throat and make you eat it before you smell how rotten and stinky it is,” and that President Obama, Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Reid are going to “use a pandemic disease or natural disaster as an excuse to declare martial law” because they are “trying to develop an environment where they can take over.”

Answer: You can’t.

Question: How do you reason with people like RNC Chairman Michael Steele, who said that Sarah Palin’s blather about “death panels” was “proper” and “appropriate?”

Answer: You can’t.

Question: How do you reason with people like Bette Jackson, a retiree in attendance at Sen. Specter’s meeting who is more than likely receiving Medicare benefits, yet says she “doesn’t want the government taking over health care?”

Answer: You can’t.

Question: How do you reason with people like Barbara Kelly, a protester at Sen. Cardin’s meeting in Maryland, who said, “Obama energized the youth just like Hitler did. He’s given the country away to the elitist Obama supporters?”.

Answer: You can’t.

Question: How do you reason with this protester in North Carolina who is carrying a sign that reads, “Hitler Had His Ovens, Obama Has His Hospices?”

Answer: You can’t.

Speaking of North Carolina, how do you reason with Republicans in that state when only 24% of them believe President Obama is a United States citizen?

Answer: You can’t.

One final question: How do you reason with people like Diane Campbell, a New Hampshire protester carrying a sign with the face of President Obama superimposed on a Nazi Storm Trooper, who opposes “government-run health care” yet whose disabled mother and sister have their medical expenses covered by Medicare?

Answer: You can’t.

And these are not just isolated incidents, they are representative of what is taking place across the country. People with no grasp on reality, with whom reasonable, rational debate is not possible. Drop the charade, pass the reform. 

Comments

  1. freeportguy says

    While I can appreciate and understand that some people will get it all wrong, I have a hard time with the highly irresponsible partisan behavior of Republican representatives.
    One can oppose a bill or a measure, but there shouldn’t be any need for blatant lies and unnecessarily stirring the pot more to a point where civil unrest is increasingly looming in the dark.

  2. Carolsb says

    To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln,
    You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time.
    President Obama would do well to remember that.

  3. freeportguy says

    The hospices lady, where exactly does she get her facts from, if not from Palin and Fox?
    Always got to cconsider the SOURCES, and all I see is the blind leading the blind.

  4. AstrosGirlKel says

    Des,
    Obama would do well to drop his efforts at bipartisanship – but he is a politician – and independents like bipartisanship. Or at least they did before the Republican party became the party of drool.
    I bet we’ll see it on January 21, 2013. Lets hope we’re not still awaiting reform.

  5. Desperado says

    Kelly, IMHO Independents want results, that’s why they voted for Obama. Hell, that’s why I voted for Obama.
    If they see him as just another politician, it’ll be adios in 2012. Something none of us want.
    Bi-partisanship is great, but you have to have 2 sides willing to work together, not one side whose goal is to be nothing but a road block.

  6. AstrosGirlKel says

    You’re absolutely right. If he doesn’t get some health reform passed, he’s in trouble. (If the Republicans can find someone to run against him, that is).
    If he can get health insurance reform passed, and Americans around the country with pre-existing conditions can get insurance, and those who have none can now buy a plan, or they start getting notices that they can take advantage of preventative care, then he’ll be darn near impossible to beat, IMHO.

  7. Shortstuff says

    Get those emails to the White House, encouraging the President to drop the attempts at bipartisanship. They’re not listening anyway; they’re not willing to even engage in debate. All they’re about on the other side is NO. Stopping every single issue Pres. Obama brings up.
    Time to tell the GOP to go pound sand.

  8. Desperado says

    Kelly, exactly. Get it passed, let people start seeing the positive effects. The economy is starting to turn around, by 2012 the unemployment numbers will be down. The re-election platform can be, we fixed the economy, we fixed health care. Landslide.

  9. Thorpe says

    I’m out of patience. Chuck Grassley stood up and talked about “euthansing granny” yesterday, so yes, push Grassley “away from the table” (his words) and get this reform passed by the Dems going it alone. Trying to reason with Republicans is like trying to reason and explain things to Meth addicts.
    IF any Dems vote against reform, I will pledge support to anyone that opposes them in the next election.

  10. artemusg says

    Des, I wrote a lengthy comment on this over at the Chron yesterday, stemming from my several decades of work as a humble public servant, one who has attended probably hundreds of public meetings on various topics over the years.
    Most public meetings are sparsely attended. Crowds show up, usually, when they are angry and/or uninformed and/or feeling threatened. Far too many people – surprise – distrust government. They believe their elected officials (assuming they voted in the first place, which is probably not a valid assumption) are either corrupt, power hungry, colossally stupid or engaged in some sort of elaborate conspiracy aimed at who knows what, maybe world domination.
    Which is a long way of saying a whole lot of citizens don’t know jack shit about government and, worse, are determined to prove it. Take Sparkle.
    But I digress. I cannot tell you the number of times I have been at meetings, sometimes presenting an issue or action for consideration by my bosses, where the crowd absolutely resists being told the truth.
    They aren’t interested in facts or statistics or research or in learning the law. They are there to yell and act stupid and then go home angry, saying we are going to throw the bums out – except that they usually don’t bother to vote and even if they do, the next bunch of bums is as stupid as those they just got rid of, in their view.
    Nothing new here. Fanatics and fools abound in our country. Usually democracy proceeds around them. This time, I am not so sure.

  11. FantasyLand says

    I work with many conservatives. These are honest decent people, who “almost” always have something nice to say. However, talk politics and you will hear some of the crazies things you ever heard. Some of them have 3 children and pay nearly $750 a month on health care.
    I know they are hurting, because we recently took a pay cut then our insurance premiums almost doubled. Yet, they still believe the same tired rhetoric coming from the extremists on the right.
    You know we say it is extremists, however, what we are really dealing with is money. Wealthy people who can afford any health care in the world they want. They don’t care about us paying %400 more for something they actually get cheaper because they enroll all their thousands of employees into the same health plans.
    I am not going to deny that this health plan is going to be expensive. It has come to this and we really have no choice. Besides, we spend way more money on building and maintaining our military. Why is it ‘the will of God’ for us to wound and kill 2 million people in Iraq for oil (all based on a lie), yet when it comes to just providing health care for our own citizens it is evil?
    I can honestly say, these people are nuts. The scary thing is they don’t even know it. Hell, they think they are poignant and logical.

  12. stexcat says

    The Republicans discovered early on that they can’t win the health reform battle with any kind of intellectual debate. The result, a campaign to raise peoples fears to a fever pitch. That also plays to peoples fear of anything Obama, so it works on several levels. The President should spend his time making sure that all of the Dem Congress critters are on board, then blitz the Republicans using the majorities that are there in both the Senate and the House. Thats the only way this will get done. 3 years will pass and the argument will be moot. the idiots will find out that the lies were just that and the reformed Health Care plan doesn’t call for euthansia when they reach 70 years old.

  13. FantasyLand says

    I work with many conservatives. These are honest decent people, who “almost” always have something nice to say. However, talk politics and you will hear some of the crazies things you ever heard. Some of them have 3 children and pay nearly $750 a month on health care.
    I know they are hurting, because we recently took a pay cut then our insurance premiums almost doubled. Yet, they still believe the same tired rhetoric coming from the extremists on the right.
    You know we say it is extremists, however, what we are really dealing with is money. Wealthy people who can afford any health care in the world they want. They don’t care about us paying %400 more for something they actually get cheaper because they enroll all their thousands of employees into the same health plans.
    I am not going to deny that this health plan is going to be expensive. It has come to this and we really have no choice. Besides, we spend way more money on building and maintaining our military. Why is it ‘the will of God’ for us to wound and kill 2 million people in Iraq for oil (all based on a lie), yet when it comes to just providing health care for our own citizens it is evil?
    I can honestly say, these people are nuts. The scary thing is they don’t even know it. Hell, they think they are poignant and logical.

  14. AntiSarah says

    Gotta play devil’s advocate for a moment. What if, in our rush to get the health care reform bill through, we choose to ignore the morons completely and pass it in spite of them? I can see where they would view this as declaring war on them.
    You’re right, des, that we can’t reason with unreasonable people. But because they ARE so unreasonable, i.e., disconnected from reality, at least some of them are crazy enough to come out with guns a’blazing.
    I’m not saying that I believe this will definitely happen. I’m simply presenting it for discussion as a possibility. Could President Obama’s patience not be based solely on a desire for bipartisanship?

  15. artemusg says

    And here is their heroine, Sarah Palin, still defending her silliness about the “death panels”
    ““President Obama can try to gloss over the effects of government authorized end-of-life consultations, but the views of one of his top health care advisers are clear enough. It’s all just more evidence that the Democratic legislative proposals will lead to health care rationing, and more evidence that the top-down plans of government bureaucrats will never result in real health care reform.”
    Not one scintilla of fact in what she wrote. She actually quoted the words of the bill and then proceeded to totally ignore what the words actually said.
    These mobs are dangerous, delusional people, led by dangerous, delusional people – starting with Sarah Palin.

  16. Paul.amos.p says

    Actually, I would really like HB3200 to be kicked to the curb in favor of expanding the current federal program reserved for federal employees and the military. As far as “reasoning” with with someone who is foaming at the mouth, well, enjoy your self if you are into that sort of thing. I’m not.
    The current federal health care system covers 83 million people and uses about half of the total American health care dollar. the other half of that dollar covers only 25 million under private systems.

  17. ShavedWombat says

    i can see where you’re coming from….but i’m afraid it’s a chance we’re going to have to take. This is a democracy, and the will of the people should not be help hostage to what some person may or may not do in reaction to that will. Caution is warranted…but it the same deal as with terrorists. If you let them make you alter the way you live your life or compromise your principles, it’s the only way they can win.

  18. Wilma says

    KelGirl wrote:
    You’re absolutely right. If he doesn’t get some health reform passed, he’s in trouble. (If the Republicans can find someone to run against him, that is).
    If he can get health insurance reform passed, and Americans around the country with pre-existing conditions can get insurance, and those who have none can now buy a plan, or they start getting notices that they can take advantage of preventative care, then he’ll be darn near impossible to beat, IMHO.
    ———————–
    Problem is, none of the reforms will go into effect until 2013, after the next election.
    And the lady who dissed hospice better never have to see her husband or child writhing in agony over treatment being done after all hope is gone. You have to be declared 6 mo. terminal with no treatment that will change that diagnosis before you even QUALIFY for hospice. And no one knows how to make a person more comfortable and pain-free than they do.

  19. carguy says

    We could probably pass this in one form or another without GOP support. I think that should be the last option.
    Before that, we should try to take out some of the verbiage and some of the portions that seem to be objectionable to “rational” people. Frankly, there’s stuff in this bill that, like most bills, was really not necessary and SOMEONE should have recognized that a lunatic anti-reform, anti-Obama moron would grab onto like a snapping turtle.
    Revise it, fix it, and announce it on the BLIMP, the American Idol results telecast and SPIKE TV. Not with Obama, but with a “World Wrestling” celebrity, two Nascar drivers, and one of the Dukes of Hazard (Bo or Luke, I don’t think it matters).
    If anybody knows anybody at the DNC, send them this suggestion.

  20. ShavedWombat says

    you know, i’m all for rational debate and reasonable dicourse…and would love to go over teh pros and cons of health insurance reformwith any conservie. If that was actually their goal…..
    but it isn’t….they’re only trying to stop any act by obama by any means necessary(while ridiculing anything that gets done and looks to be working) this is nothing more than cynical electioneering from people who learned the SECOND lesson of the last election….that there is a large segment of american that will believe anything you say so long as it’s negative and about Obama.
    I’ve been staying off the chron lately, because the health insurance reform debate has been brought home to me in a rather rude way…and i no longer trust my reactions to some of our more(shall we say) obstreperous friends.. My dad has been fighting lung cancer(and winning) for years now. He’s self employed, and they get their insurance thru my mom’s employer(she’s a nurse)…well she switched jobs, paid the COBRA payments to keep the insurance flating untill she could start and all seemed well. while this was going on, dad had a relapse and had to go for more chemo, since surgery is no longer an option. It’s back in remission now, but he still has to do a few more chemo treatments to decrease his chances of another relapse(which will likely kill him)
    Guess who is now calling the time spent under COBRA a “lapse in insurance”….requiring a 296(that’s two HUNDRED and nintey-six) DAY waiting period before his next chemo treatment is covered?
    (give you a hint, it rhymes with pimpsurance clunkany)
    Services contracted
    Services paid for
    Services NOT received
    Some of you have experience with cancer, and know that the TIMING of the treatment is nearly as important as the treatment itself, and i just FAIL to believe that a “clerical error” occured that saves the company money in the short term…and if they’re lucky the long term as well(so long as their customer has the common decency to just go ahead and die so some executive can have a larger christmas bonus)
    So here’s my opinion on dealing with the unreasonable people resisting health insurance reform. Fuck them…fuck them in their collective ear. Every time i hear one of them saying Obama wants to kill their Gam-Gam, i’m wondering why their okay with an insurance company killing my dad to save a buck.
    Pass the goddamn bill already and let them scream themselves hoarse.(they will anyway). If they want to get violent, let them.(they will anyway)
    reform was a large part of obama’s campaign, and he won. Freakin’ DO IT already.

  21. machine says

    [ frenzied middle-aged white guy ]
    YOU’RE ALL SHEEP!!! OBAMA WANTS TO RATION HEALTH CARE AND PUT CRYSTALS IN OUR PALMS!!!
    LASTDAY, YEAR OF THE CITY, 2009!!! CAROUSEL BEGINS!!!!
    :: sets hair on fire, runs out of room ::
    [ /frenzied middle-aged white guy ]

  22. AliasLoisGriffin/KJS says

    Wow, Wombat. That’s a heart-wrenching story. I can’t come up with words that seem right, but I can at least do my part to fight the good fight, for your dad and every other American in a similar situation.
    So the Waxman almost-a-bill-but-not-quite isn’t perfect, and my gut tells me whatever does pass will be a watered-down version of whatever almost-bill comes out on top. However, we’ve been debating the issue for YEARS now, and we’ve had time to think it over. Let’s have some action.

  23. Carolsb says

    I posted this on the chron today in response to an idiot but I think it is worth repeating…
    Hend01 wrote:
    How many people on this Blog are without Health Care?
    Answer: None.
    We all have access to health care. It may be paid for by the County, but many people avail themselves to free health care.
    Trying to scare people into accepting Health Care Reform based on not having health care or that it will be too expensive to have is just as ridiculous as the claims that it’s all becuase of politicos and lobbyist….
    ________________
    hend, with all due respect, that is the biggest crock of sh** that I have EVER read on the blogs!
    I DON’T HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE — I am a cancer survivor and I had to drop my insurance (the High Risk Pool as no one else would cover me) when my monthly preimium hit $950 per month with a $7,500 deductible and a $10,000 co-pay. Perhaps you are wealthly enough to afford that, but I sure as hell can’t!
    Free health care paid for BY THE COUNTY???? What freakin’ planet do you live on? Yes, if I have a heart attack today (which I am mad enough to do at the moment), yes the hospital must treat me. THEN I will be sent a bill for $50,000 to $100,000 which I must pay. So I go into bankruptcy…
    Jesus, you haven’t got a freakin’ clue about the real world — only your safe little corner of it!

  24. SSTMelon says

    I agree that the Dems should do it without the Republicans at this point. “Bipartisan” doesn’t mean “three Republicans are on board out of the entire Republican delegation in Congress”. The Republicans aren’t interested in advancing this legislation. They seem to be interested instead in killing it by very, very slowly strangling it and hoping that certain of their efforts to rile up the easily-rileable and poorly-informed among their base turn public opinion against reform, to deal the death blow.
    But if the Dems ditch the Republicans on this, they should reform the bills under consideration (where relevant) to include what _we_ want, like a strong public plan, an employer mandate that includes all but the very smallest employers, generous subsidies, and major Medicare payment (and care delivery) reforms. Let’s _please_ not be stuck again with another crappy bill.

  25. van59 says

    Several days ago I was discharged from the va hosp after almost 3 weeks where I underwent open heart surgery for mitral valve repair, triple-bypass and a procedure to correct atrial fibrillation. It took longer because I fell into a minor variation of a problem.
    I want to thank all who wished me well. If it weren’t for the “socialized” med care at the va, I wouldn’t be here but, instead, up that well-known creek.
    Shaved, my empathy for you and your Dad. Unfortunately, the inbred, wasp neanderthals lack foresight, knowledge, and awareness of tangental consequences of their self-centered existence following like the well-known lemmings led by the likes of beck, lumbaugh, etc., the medical-pharmo-biz industrial complex who understand precisely what the Obama healthcare plan entails; ie, it threatens their obscene incomes.
    I don’t know if these people, as characterized so eloquently by Maher the other day, will come to should they face a similar situation as yours.
    My saving feeling is that I believe in a total justice not of this world for each and every one of us. Therefore, I don’t let it get to me too much these injustices. But I also have a duty to at least speak out against these injustices.
    I think my comments and observations here regarding my surgery and the current healthcare controversies are apropos.
    Overall, my treatment during this period was very good from the technical point as well as the personal effort by the staff to try to help the vets. Yes, this is a large organization and there is some rigidity in dealing with issues that don’t quite fit the rule book.
    A major surgery like open heart requires a lot of people from the preps, operating room and recovery personnel along with a lot of equipment that is used only once and is then disposed because of the infection risk. My operation took all day from 7:30 am till sometime after 4pm.
    The staff are always using latex gloves and hand sanitizers to protect the patients.
    I can understand a high cost in these cases. Where is the money to come from? In my case, I have a service-connected disability which gives me this excellent care as I can not afford private healthcare.
    I have taken care of my body for most of my life of 68 years. I quit smoking the summer between junior and senior high. I qualified to represent Texas at the Senior Olympics a couple of years ago in Louisville, KY, in cycling events (couldn’t afford to attend) so I have been an athlete into old age. However, I can’t control genetics or some diseases or toxins that cause mitral valve damage. This I understood and accept.
    When I was younger, I arrogantly assumed that, because I was so strong and smart coupled with a lack of future perspective, I could make my money and take care of myself to where I tried to get out of paying ss and medicare. Like most of us, I didn’t really understand the fickle finger of fate intervention at the most inappropriate timing. I was too wrapped up in my myoptic-view world of my self-importance in the big picture.
    In the meantime, I’m rather disgusted with the dems in that, after all these years of neocon tactics, they still have a proclivity for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Perhaps Obama has too many old-school pols as his advisors as he appears to be adopting much of the standard pol operating procedures. Anyway, the dems have asked me for opinions and money to which I will unload with the first part and tell them to print their own on the second part.

  26. stexcat says

    Wombat:
    I am so sorry to hear what is happening with your Dad. I have been there and I burnt the Tee shirt a long time ago. He is in our prayers and Pat will add him to the prayer chain at her Church. Not sure how you feel about that, but it sure can’t hurt.
    This is what is so frustrating, those of us who have dealt with the insurance companies and their arbitrary rulings know the truth of how the system operates. We sincerely want change because we know the pain that comes with the way they do business. It is a business with them and there is no empathy. In a perfect world there would be no problems like this. You need Insurance, certainly sir, you have paid for it, no problem. If only it worked like that. These screamers have no idea of what a something like this can do to a family. They are concerned only that the President is Obama and if he suggests it its wrong. I just hope when the August vacation comes to an end, Congress puts their butts in their seats and gets the deal done. NO more bull shit, no more “We can’t destroy the Health Care industry”. Jut put asses in seats and DO IT !

  27. SSTMelon says

    Carol, hend01 appears to be referring to the county indigent health care program. It exists in Texas, not in the rest of the United States, and simply requires all Texas counties to pay for up to $30,000 worth of health care for “indigent” residents. “Indigent” means “earns no more than 21% of the federal poverty level”.
    In other words, you’d have to make no more than $2,274 in 2009 to qualify for it, as a single individual with no kids.
    Coverage, my tuckus. Then again, Karl Rove thinks that only 2% of Americans lack health insurance for “legitimate” reasons. And all sorts of loyal foot soldiers believe him, just because.
    As I wrote earlier, Desperado is right on. It’s time to leave the deniers and howlers in the dust and move forward.

  28. carguy says

    We’ve been hashing and rehashing this subject to death now for over a month. I don’t see any movement by either side. We need to get Henry Kissinger involved. Send everybody who’s important to Paris with Henry. Then, and this is the key element to my plan, give everybody a shot of whatever that stuff is that they ALWAYS give Keifer Sutherland on “24″ that will kill him in 72 hours unless he gets the antidote. Give Henry the antidote. Nobody gets a vial until they agree on a fair, equitable plan that will cover at least 95% of the populace.
    Damn it! We make things too complicated these days.
    Hey, I’m not kidding.

  29. ShavedWombat says

    thanks all…
    he’ll most likely pull through(he’s a tough dude), and his last pet scans were very positive. It just yanks my chain that the true meaning of this issue has been lost in the corporate sponsored noise machine that we’re seeing today.
    How i would dearly love SOME leader to just abandon pretense, civility, and politeness for just ten minutes and let the insurance industry know that we knokw exactly what’s going on here. That they may have fooled a lot of americans by concealing their intentions behind the perfect storm caused by chapped asses over a lost election and the abject fear of the evil big black man.
    I guess some people still believe that what’s good for General Bullmoose is good for the USA…

  30. chuck says

    Why are all the congress folks that are fit to be tied about this legislation from the South. Don’t they have any uninsured people in those states?

  31. justcrusinby says

    Wombat, I am sad to hear about your dad. I do understand what you are going through. The ups and downs and with the insurance debacle only adds to the problem. You and your dad are in my thoughts. Please know that!
    I have fought on the chron blog today with carpenter (a real *Christian*) on Dr. Materson’s blog regarding healthcare. I am getting to the point that trying to reason with people so damn hell bent on believing in death panels and the *fear* imposed by the propaganda of Palin, Gingrich, Dawkins and Richard Land (now that one is a real idiot) that health care reform will be a long time in fruition. If just one of these self serving and sanctimonious people would spend 8 hours in Taub emergency room maybe their ignorance would fade. I doubt it as they have their insurance card and the hell with the rest of humanity. Exactly what they *fear* is occurring too many without insurance. They are refused or delayed treatment until it is too late. I am so saddened with all of this. This party of NO is showing their true colors of hatred fear mongering, lack of compassion and above all their IGNORANCE.

  32. alienHunter says

    Actually, psychological studies indicate that people that are fantasy prone are not “crazy” just fantasy prone. In this case, they are allowed to act out their fantasies under the guise of financial sensibilities as defined by the right. To the dismay of “normals” they have migrated from their own personal scope of influence to a much greater arena. Unfortunately, their cultural influence is compelling. And then, of course, there are those individuals who have bona fide personality issues which again do not fall under the umbrella of “crazy” but rather “disordered”.
    These people are manipulative, self-centered, suffer from “projective ideation” and at most times seem to have their own versions of reality. And lastly of course, there are the certifiable “crazies”. The vast majority of all these unfortunates have gravitated to the Republican party because the right’s philosophical essence embodies the easiest reconciliation of “self”. And that is at the core of what moves us.

  33. Mythbuster says

    I hope all goes well Wombat, I can appreciate your anger. If I even get a runny nose, my insurance (through my wife) tries desperately to find a way to deny it as “pre-existing condition” because I have MS. They stop at nothing, because they DO NOT CARE about anything other than the almighty dollar. So add a FUCK YOU! to your dad’s insurance people from me as well. I hope all levels out soon for him.

  34. Shortstuff says

    Carol, don’t even get me started about carpenter and some of those “real Christians” over on the Christian blogs.
    They are the most hateful, unforgiving pieces of shit I’ve come across.

  35. Shortstuff says

    Duh….of course my earlier comment was for JCB, not Carol.
    (see, Carol? You’re in my head now!)
    Wombat, our best wishes are with your dad. What that insurance company is doing is beyond wrong. It’s just evil.
    THAT’S the kind of crap we need to reform.

  36. drrbc says

    How do you reason? You don’t. At least not until you can see the other guys point of view, then still sometimes not very well. So as a conservative, I wasn’t in the least surprised to read how y’all feel… it’s the way we felt over the last 8 years. The problem is that we tend to forget that our neighbor may have something of value to say or contribute, that they may be as smart as we are, and that we may have been just as inflammatory or obstructive in the past (maybe as recent just a few minutes ago!). What we are trying to do here is give birth to a mammoth; and so if a skunk is born in 31 days, a dog in 61, and an elephant in 624, we don’t want to rush this and end up with a stinky dog of a bill that dies before it’s born.
    *******************************************************************************************************
    NOTE from Jefe: Spoken like a true slogan repeater. Rushing the bill? Health care reform has been needed for 60 years. Falsely arguing that the President is “rushing” is absurd on the face. Second, corporate strategists have been giving instructions on how to disrupt town halls with Dem representatives and senators. If you are going to make an argument against badly needed reform, at least be honest in your opposition…you support government protected monopolies of private insurance companies. Just go ahead and say it. Oh, and hope you don’t get sick and lose your job.

  37. Anonymous says

    ShavedWombat, I’ve got an even worse story for you. My coworker’s brother spent all his life working one job after another as an electrician. Paid his taxes, contributed to society, but of course no insurance. Then this past year he discovered he has stomach cancer. Now he’s so sick he can’t work. Problem is, he is 4 years too young for medicare. And he made $4000 too much LAST YEAR to get medicare. Oh, and since he lives in Polk County, which doesn’t have a county hospital, he’s supposed to go all the way to UTMB in Galveston for treatment. Only UTMB-Gal is closed except for emergency because of hurricane Ike. Someone actually had the gaul to tell his wife that if he has cardiac arrest, they could treat him down there (of course, how he’s supposed to get from Livingston to Galveston in time to treat a cardiac arrest is another irrationality). It’s like these poor folks are in some crazy alternate universe, not the wonderful country they thought they were living in. We had heard that our world-renouned cancer center in Houston (We make Cancer History!) had some provision for folks who couldn’t afford treatment. Turns out they only work with folks who either have insurance or are on medicaid. Anyone stuck in insurance limbo have to bring their cash up front. It’s almost $200 a week to get this poor man pain meds so he can just make it from one day to the next, nevermind any treatment to help him get better. On no income. What do people do who don’t have insurance? They’re just left to die while their relatives try every avenue they can think of to get them help, with one closed door after another. HOW CAN THESE OBSTRUCTIONISTS LIVE WITH THEMSELVES?

  38. Carolsb says

    …We had heard that our world-renouned cancer center in Houston (We make Cancer History!) had some provision for folks who couldn’t afford treatment. Turns out they only work with folks who either have insurance or are on medicaid. Anyone stuck in insurance limbo have to bring their cash up front. It’s almost $200 a week to get this poor man pain meds so he can just make it from one day to the next, nevermind any treatment to help him get better. On no income. What do people do who don’t have insurance? They’re just left to die while their relatives try every avenue they can think of to get them help, with one closed door after another. HOW CAN THESE OBSTRUCTIONISTS LIVE WITH THEMSELVES?
    __________________
    And that, my friend, is why some of us with cancer or that have had cancer, get so completely outraged with those that say “anyone can get health insurance if they want it, or can get treated free by the county”. Complete bullshit. They don’t care about anyone else but themselves.

  39. drrbc says

    Dang! I’m trying to establish a dialog (and in a conciliatory way, I’d hoped) & I get slapped with the label of “slogan repeater” & my integrity questioned. This is exactly what I was alluding to, we stop listening and disregard others of good conscience whose opinions differ from our own. Well, I’m very sorry I took up your time & space on the server. I only did so in hopes that maybe working together we could accomplish more than if we continued to work against each other.

  40. justcrusinby says

    The only hope with MD Anderson if you do not have insurance is a clinical trial which is truly sad as one is regulated to being a subject of testing only and conventional treatments are not given. Once the trial is over if you are still alive, well you are back on your own.

  41. says

    A respectful dialogue comes from mutual respect. As long as you repeat slogans like the way we treated Bush “the last eight years” and the false notion that we are “rushing” health care reform after 60 years, it makes it damn hard to have a respectful conversation. Bush spent 8 years, along with his talking heads, of poking everyone in the eye who happened to disagree with his policies. I was called unpatriotic, troop hater, against America, an America hater, commie, pinko, and treasonous just because I disagreed with his invasion of Iraq and turned out to be right. If you want respect, you give it first. I have 8 years of grievances. An apology is necessary before respect can be considered.

  42. drrbc says

    Gee Bob, I don’t recall repeating any slogans, I said that I wasn’t surprised to read how y’all FEEL. I’ve found that when differing parties have issues, acknowledging each others feelings is the first step in initiating productive discourse. Acknowledgement generally connotes respect without the assignment of blame. This is important because neither party may feel they are liable for injury to the other. Therefore, though I would like dialog, and if I were to apologize for the short comings of others, would you believe me? I don’t think so. So I must admit that now I feel you have no interest in listening to me or working with me. So what am I left to do? Doing nothing I think would be the most anti-American of all choices. I am left with choosing to fight for what I think are in the best interests of the US (and like you, I love my country- so expect me to fight dirty).
    Hmmm. Could this would explain what’s really going on with these folks that seem so unreasonable?
    Brother, if I’ve have offended you, I am truly sorry. But I will not apologize for nor accept blame for wrongs that I’ve not committed. I came with an open hand and was spat on. Forgive me if I don’t return. I hope the next guy has better luck.
    ****************************************************************************************************
    Didn’t repeat any slogans? You repeated 2. First, you repeated the GOP talking point that reform is being “rushed”. “Rushed” after 60 years of badly needed reform. Second, you claim that the shouters, the ones PREVENTING discussing the issue have “another point of view”. I don’t care what “point of view” a person has; that doesn’t give that person the right to prevent another from giving his. In addition, waving swastika signs, screaming Nazi! and Communist! and caring loaded assault weapons to public meetings is an odd way of trying to convince others of your “point of view”.
    BTW, as long as you refer to these conversations on the Chronicle pages, we’ll make sure the entire conversation is shown here so when you falsely claim you’ve “kicked someone’s ass”, people can come here to read the truth. Speaking of ass, you’re nothing if not consistent when you show yours. – Jefe

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *


three × 5 =

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>